Admissions from U of T undergrad

[tshsmith]

Hi everyone,

I was hoping I could get some help sorting out my courses for my final few semesters of undergraduate studies, in order to properly prepare myself for the DVM program at the University of Guelph. I have been to countless registrar and faculty appointments, and no one seems to give me a straight answer.

1. For U of T ( St. George students) which of our statistics courses count as " having a calculus pre-requisite" As far as I am concerned, the closest we have is STA220, which has a grade 12 math pre-req.

2. For the genetics pre-requisite, what genetics courses will count?? Some say it has to be a general genetics course ( i.e. Bio260 or HMB265) , while others say I has to be more animal specific???

3. Will there be weighting in the admissions process towards individuals with a heavier course load in their final year? For example, if person A applies with a higher overall average in their final 2 semesters, but is taking less demanding courses compared to person B who has a slightly lower average in their final 2 semesters, but is doing biochemistry, anatomy courses, etc. will they weight those applications differently???

I thought I saw something along these lines somewhere on the Guelph website, but can't seem to find the information again on... :s

I'm sorry for all the questions, I am trying to collect information in anyway possible to organize myself to the best of my abilities. If anyone can help me with this questions ( or point me somewhere where these question can be answered) I would appreciate it ;D

Thanks in advance!!!

[dreizehn]

tl;dr Version:

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1.) Ms. Deanna Lundmark.
2.) Does not have to be animal related, but, again, Ms. Deanna Lundmark.
3.) NO.


Extended Edition:

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The ultimate person you need to send your questions to, especially for your more specific questions related to course selection, is Ms. Deanna Lundmark in admissions. For more general questions, e-mail should work ([e-mail]), but the course approvals process must be completed by mail or fax (www.ovc.uoguelph.ca/future/dvm/admissions/academic/#Prerequisite). Starting this process is especially important for non-UofG students like yourself (and I was in the same boat), as ALL courses you submit as part of a DVM application must be approved of by admissions prior to application. As such, you should most definitely be getting all courses you plan to use or are potentially looking at using approved of ahead of time so you don't run into any unfortunate surprises in the future. This applies to courses you have already completed and plan to submit in your application, as well as for planning out future courses to take. Just one thing to be aware of: the admissions office can be quite busy, so answers can sometimes take quite a while (e.g., several months in some cases, depending how busy they are), at least in my prior experience (i.e., start the process ASAP).

Starting the course approvals process should help with your first two questions, as to which statistics and genetics courses would be acceptable. Semi-answering your question regarding the genetics course in particular, but also applicable for other courses in general: courses used for a DVM application do NOT have to be animal related (e.g., a good number of the courses I submitted had nothing to do with animals; just make sure they are approved of ahead of time). One thing you may find helpful in looking over UofT courses is to compare them to the document of pre-approved courses for UofG students (www.ovc.uoguelph.ca/future/dvm/admissions/academic/documents/acceptablecourses_000.pdf). For your reference, and because I'm procrastinating studying for pharm , I've copied the UofG currently approved genetics courses' descriptions below:

BIOLOGY (BIOL) COURSES (www.uoguelph.ca/registrar/calendars/undergraduate/current/c12/c12biol.shtml):

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BIOL*3020 Population Genetics [0.5] - This course is designed to explore the concepts of random mating, inbreeding, random drift, assortative mating and selection as they relate to natural populations. The dynamic genetic structure of populations and its relationship to the process of speciation is examined. The role and significance of molecular genetics as it relates to population genetics, evolution, systematics and phylogeny is also considered.

MOLECULAR BIOLOGY AND GENETICS (MBG) COURSES (www.uoguelph.ca/registrar/calendars/undergraduate/current/c12/c12mbg.shtml):

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MBG*2040 Foundations in Molecular Biology and Genetics [0.50] - This course will develop an understanding of the fundamental concepts in genetics, including patterns of inheritance, allelic variation, gene interaction, linkage, gene mapping and changes in chromosome structure and number. This will be followed by in-depth discussions on gene structure, replication, transcription, translation, recombination, mutation and DNA repair, and an introduction to gene regulation.

MBG*2400 Fundamentals of Plant and Animal Genetics [0.50] - Fundamental aspects of plant and animal genetics are covered in this course including the chromosomal basis of inheritance, natural and artificial selection, domestication, epigenetics and quantitative traits. Population dynamics and the effect of selection on allele frequencies will be introduced with examples from agricultural crop and animal species and companion animal species. Genomics will be introduced with an emphasis on the development and use of molecular genetic markers in marker assisted selection.

MBG*3050 Human Genetics [0.50] - This course is designed to introduce the student to the study of biological inheritance in humans. The course includes discussion of the genetic basis of human individual differences, gene frequencies in human populations, human behavioral genetics, human cytogenetics, biochemical genetics and developmental genetics, medical genetics and other aspects of human heredity.

MBG*3060 Quantitative Genetics [0.50] - This course examines the nature of Mendelian inheritance when extended to quantitative traits that are jointly influenced by the environment and the simultaneous segregation of many genes. Prediction of response to natural and artificial selection in populations will also be studied.

MBG*4040 Genetics and Molecular Biology of Development [0.50] - This course provides an examination of the genetic mechanisms that underlie organismal development. The molecular biology of cell determination and differentiation and the genetic control of morphogenesis and pattern formation will be emphasized.
MBG*4070 Genetics and Molecular Biology of Development [0.50] - Lecture portion only of MBG*4040

MBG*4080 Molecular Genetics [0.50] - In this course the topics studied will include the chemical nature of genetic material, transcription and the control of gene expression, and DNA cloning and the use of recombinant DNA molecules in modifying gene expression.

Just for further info, the course I used for my genetics prerequisite (from UW) was:

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BIOL 139: Genetics [0.50] - Mendelian genetics. Chromosomal mechanisms in mitosis and meiosis. The origin, inheritance and adaptive significance of chromosomal changes. Nucleic acids as the carriers of genetic information. Natural selection and the evolution of genetic systems.

So, as you can see, there is quite a variation in acceptable courses, which is why you need to submit your proposed courses ahead of time to admissions for approval, as there really is no one else who can give you a definitive answer.

As for your third question (i.e., any preference/weighting given to "tougher" course loads), for once I can actually be concise: NO.
In the admissions process, it really just comes down to the numbers. So, for your example, Person A applies with a higher average, so they will be ranked higher than Person B (that's it; NO attention is paid to the courses they took, their semester load, etc., so long as they have all been approved). For this reason, insofar as your DVM application, it is in your best interest to simply take whichever approved course(s) in which you think you can get the best mark.

I found the DVM admissions process, especially for non-UofG students, is a long, complicated, sometimes confusing, sometimes frustrating, not overly enjoyable process (except the interviews, I actually enjoyed those). BUT: it is so worth it. ;D
Best of luck to you.


And now, just because, a giraffe:

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[tshsmith]

Wow! Thank you dreizehn for such a thorough and quick response! This has really helped clarify things for me. I am currently working on getting my courses together to mail to UofG admissions, so hopefully everything is going to work out. Good luck studying for Pharm, and thank you again!

[NikkiS]

Hello,

I am a current OVC student (class of 2016), and I did my undergrad at U of T.

First of all, let me say that I share your frustration. I found it incredibly difficult to get answers to my questions when I was preparing to apply. It was hard to even contact the OVC at all. Don't give up! Hopefully I can help a little bit by sharing the courses that I used as my prerequisites.

1. For statistics, U of T doesn't really offer a good statistics course to use as an OVC pre-requisite. I chose STA257H1 (Probability and Statistics I) because it was the only one that was described in the calendar as having a calculus prerequisite. Also, I never took calc in first year so I needed to get special permission to take the course. In my opinion, STA257H1 is not an appropriate statistics course for bio people. It is geared towards math and statistics majors and was way above my head (and I had always had straight 90s in math up until that point). After working my butt off, I still did not get a very good grade in the course. Even though I had learned a lot of theory, I don't feel like I learned anything from that course that I could apply to actual scientific situations, which was frustrating as I needed a good understanding on statistics for my BSc, not to mention a DVM. I ended up taking STA304H1 (Surveys, Sampling, and Observational Data) in third year, and at the last minute I decided to list it as my stats pre-reqs on the BIF form. I just kind of hoped the OVC would accept it. Luckily they did, even though the course was kind of a joke. The whole thing was a big headache and I feel like I would have been better off academically by taking whatever the recommended stats course was, although that one doesn't have a calc pre-req so I have no idea if it would be accepted. I still have occasional panic attacks over whether or not my stats course will be accepted, and I have already finished my first semester at the OVC.

2) I took BIO260.

3) I don't believe so. My advice would be to take whatever you are interested in rather than what will "look" the best, as it will easier to do well in courses that personally interest you. My specialty was Evolutionary Biology. I'm glad I got that perspective during my undergrad and I don't think it hurt my application not to have done Animal Bio or something like that. I actually had really good grades in third year, so for my final two semesters I dropped down to 4 courses in each semester so they wouldn't count as full time semesters. Then I kind of relaxed for fourth year knowing that the OVC wouldn't look at my grades.

Here are the courses I submitted as pre-reqs:

Biological Sciences: CSB351Y1 (Introduction to Virology)
Cell Bio: BIO241H1 (Cell and Developmental Biology)
Genetics: BIO260H1 (Genetics)
Statistics: STA304H1 (Surveys, Sampling, and Observational Data)
Biochemistry: BCH210H1 (Biochemistry I)
Humanities and Social Sciences: INI300Y1 (Strategic Writing for Business and the Professions) - The only 300 social science I could find with no pre-reqs.

For each category, I submitted the course with the best mark. I didn't worry about what would "look" best.

Hopefully this helps, I know how stressful the application process can be, and it is especially difficult if you didn't go to Guelph for your undergrad. Let me know if you have any other questions. Keep in mind this is just one person's experience, and I have no idea if requirements have changed since I applied last year.

[JA]

Hi tshsmith,

I did my undergrad at UofT also and graduated in 2011 and am currently in the OVC class of 2016. It was VERY difficult for me to figure out courses and have my pre-requisites accepted but have no fear! It IS possible

Here's what I used:

• Humanities: HUM199Y1 (full year course)

• Statistics: STA220H1 (half year course)

• Genetics: BIO240H1(Half Course)

• Biochemistry: BCH210H1 (half course)

• Biology: PSL280H1 (half year course)

• Biology and Cell Biology requirement: ANA300Y1 (full year course)
(I chose this to fulfill 1credit of the 1.5 biology prerequisite requirements: Cytology and Histology fulfill the 0.5 cell biology requirement while gross anatomy and neuroanatomy fulfill a 0.5 general biology requirement)

So to summarize:
1) I used STA220 and it was acceptable
2) I was able to use HMB265 aswell as BIO240 as a genetics (both courses were given approval)
3) I dont think the difficulty of the courses is taken into consideration. What I tried to do was balance my courses out such that it gave me the best possible GPA.

Definitely pick the courses that have the best marks, not what looks better. I hope this helps!

I would HIGHLY recommend having more than one course approved by admissions at OVC when sending in them in for approval as sometimes course aren't accepted and it leaves you frustrated and stressed out last minute trying to find another course and waiting for it's approval. It happened to me and I heard other students just got multiple courses approved in the first shot and it made life A LOT simpler.

Good luck!

[ThinkingAboutVet]

Thank you for the insight ... is there anyone else who can maybe shed some light on third and fourth year courses as prerequisites. I finished my degree and I'm thinking of doing a non-degree year so I need third and fourth year courses. I especially need easy to do well in courses for biochem, genetics and the humanities requirement. Thank you in advance!

[datass]

Jul 20, 2013 15:19:10 GMT -5 @ThinkingAboutVet said:

Thank you for the insight ... is there anyone else who can maybe shed some light on third and fourth year courses as prerequisites. I finished my degree and I'm thinking of doing a non-degree year so I need third and fourth year courses. I especially need easy to do well in courses for biochem, genetics and the humanities requirement. Thank you in advance!

You are pretty much screwed for biochem and genetics as far as "easy" courses go.

->You can take bch311, but only if you didn't take one of the many exclusions for it.... which you probably did.
After that it's only 4th year biochem courses and they are all pretty nuts & hard to get a 90% in.

->MGY/Genetics doesn't have 3rd year courses. So once again you are stuck with 4th year courses... These either have ridiculously high difficulty on the anti-calendar, or weird marking schemes where I believe it would also be hard to get a 90%+ in

->Don't get me started on the god d**n humanities courses and their communist marking schemes D:


I'm in the same boat more or less, I took bch210 and hmb265 in what guelph considered non-full term semesters. So even though I got awesome marks with very little work, I ended up being quite screwed as I can't use these courses and will now be forced to take some 4th year behemoths lol.


Realistically though, it's not impossible. You would just have to work more than the birdy 2nd year ones. There is quite a bit of choice in topics/courses at the 4th year level and that's a big plus imo, but yeaa not birdy like the 2nd year ones

[notbiochem]

->You can take bch311, but only if you didn't take one of the many exclusions for it.... which you probably did.
After that it's only 4th year biochem courses and they are all pretty nuts & hard to get a 90% in.

You may not want to bother with BCH311 - I tried getting it approved, but no luck! I took BCH311 as an attempt to redeem my terrible BCH210 marks, but it just dragged my final semester average down. It was my mistake not to get it approved before taking the course.

It sucks to do well in the 2nd year pre-req courses only to find out they're ineligible because of the full course load thing. I don't think it's impossible to take on those "behemoth" courses, but if possible, get them approved ASAP before you commit for these courses! It'd be nice to apply for OVC without being broken and battered by stressing over amazing marks in difficult courses (at UofT, no less!).